International Stock Exchange / Should Giampaolo cancel the 50,000 shares @ 1.20 sale order ?

Poll

#1 2010-02-07 10:12:12

#2 2010-02-07 10:20:28

#3 2010-02-07 10:34:10

#4 2010-02-07 10:46:16

#5 2010-02-07 11:01:47

#6 2010-02-07 11:08:19

#7 2010-02-07 11:17:15

#8 2010-02-07 11:28:50

#9 2010-02-07 11:34:22

#10 2010-02-07 11:40:37

#11 2010-02-07 11:41:34

#12 2010-02-07 11:50:30

#13 2010-02-07 11:54:09

#14 2010-02-07 12:24:51

#15 2010-02-07 12:54:01

#16 2010-02-07 14:56:12

#17 2010-02-07 15:03:31

#18 2010-02-07 16:23:22

#19 2010-02-07 16:29:36

#20 2010-02-07 16:33:53

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CR price resistance issue

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Re: CR price resistance issue

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Re: CR price resistance issue

AndyGrant wrote:

DeliciousDemar wrote:

DeliciousDemar wrote:

DeliciousDemar wrote:

giampaolohuldschinsky wrote:

giampaolohuldschinsky wrote:

AndyGrant wrote:

DeliciousDemar wrote:

AndyGrant · 2010-02-07 10:12:12

As the 8th largest non-insider shareholder i'm establishing this CR shareholdervote, in the best interest of both CR shareholders as well as in the best interest of CR business.

This is a poll for out-side shareholders, 1 share = 1 vote, insiders may of course vote but that would cancel the whole purpose of having a shareholder vote in the first place.

Let me first start off by introducting the idea of the SPO at 1.20 L$ / share, to quote myself as the inventor of the idea:

AndyGrant wrote:
I'd actually in this case suggest something slightly different, if i may.

Run the IPO for max 7 days. Those of us who have decided to invest into this company have already had significant amount of time to relocate and move cash to invest into this. Those who need more time to consider/relocate can enter Cobra during post ipo at a different price.

I'd actually move up the post-IPO offering to 1.20 L$ / share. This would in my opinion serve 2 purposes;
1. there is a chance more people would want to enter at IPO and get the "nice price"
2. you'd raise more cash with less shares if the ipo is undersubscribed, this would serve you and all ipo investors
And of course the 3rd people wouldnt have to lock up their cash for more than a week.

Link to source: http://www.intlstockexchange.com/punbb/ … 248#p12248

This was posted in the CR IPO discussion thread, in connection with the length of the ipo. The 2nd point i emphasized there, to raise more cash with less shares.

Now let me refresh history really brief, from then till now. I subscribed to 18k shares, and sold off 7k before that order of 50,000 shares was put in place, the shareprice had a good but slow development, the price-discovery was working well, but some resistance was clearly building up. Finally after the 50,000 shares were put on sale, all of us started to outbid it, all the way down to almost IPO price.

Consequently the whole purpose of my fine suggestion to CR as a way to raise more capital with less shares is cancelled out.

I believe in Cobra Rentals best interest this SPO should now be cancelled as soon as possible, and once price discovery syncronizes at a level of around 1.10-1.15 it can then be reviewed, but in my own opinion it should happen in installements, otherwise we'll be back at the same problem as we are seeing now.

I did have a chat in private with Giampaolo today, where we discussed this issue, however to my dissapointment i did not feel my concern was taken seriously, he did say he'll consider it after i repeatedly asked for it. Therefore i'm now reaching out to you, the public-shareholders, the ones who made this IPO possible in the first place to establish what the market really wants, to together best serve the business interest of Cobra Rentals.

For the record i vote "Yes, completely remove it for now (may reissue later)" with my 9,999 CR shares.

DMWAReanimator · 2010-02-07 10:20:28

6050 shares for removing the order.

DeliciousDemar · 2010-02-07 10:34:10

This is incredible micro-management, and completely inappropriate. A minor shareholder should not be able to open a poll in a company's forum - it makes it look like it might actually be binding...

As the 6th largest non-insider shareholder (see, Andy - mine is bigger - hehe), I vote to leave Giam the heck (please replace the first two letter with two of your own choosing) alone to run the company. It's his job to make decisions like this and to INFORM shareholders. This is not a strategic decision.

There are bullies on this forum. I hate bullies.

Leave Britney alone!!

dd

AndyGrant · 2010-02-07 10:46:16

I'm completely leaving it up to him to run the company, but when the CEO runs clearly against market interest i get involved, especially when this means also going against the interest of my own shareholders.
It's not micromanagement, it's caring for my own shareholders interest (RA), and your own.

Based on your suggestion Del, it seems we should all keep quiet (and maybe right, had i not introduced the idea of selling some shares at 1.20 this problem wouldn't occur), but i'm not the kind of investor who sits and prays to God to see returns i like to continuasely work on it, to make my investment worth it.

I respect your opinion, and your decision Del, but i disagree this is "micromanagement".

DeliciousDemar · 2010-02-07 11:01:47

Andy,
please don't put words in my mouth. Voicing your opinion is fine - I never told anyone to be quiet. Well, except Hugo. And, you know, Hugo really does need to be quiet.

But calling for a "vote" as if it means something is not fine. You have no authority or right to call for a vote on this - and you are using the mechanisms of the forum to lend more weight to your opinion than it actually has. . Of course you need to look out for the interests of your shareholders. But I mean ffs, you hold about 1% of shares. Saying you are the "8th largest" shareholder is just another tactic to make your holdings seem more important than they are.

Next time, simply make a post, stating your opinion - don't try to bully Giam into doing what YOU think is best. It's just rude. A good CEO will listen, and I think Giam is a good CEO.

You and a couple others around here try to swing your weight around a lot with tons of posts and strong opinions. Volume and quantity doesn't mean anything to me. Respect and honor do.

dd

AnjaDrevnerussky · 2010-02-07 11:08:19

I won't vote here before hearing Giam's comments.

I tend to agree with Andy in the matter.

One thing is clear: CR needs a proper policy of shareholders' participation, e.g. SAS shareholders above 5 K can setup a motion at any time.

And I think the sell order is a strategic decsion, because when filled Giam would lose his majority.

My suggestion now is to give CR and Giam some space and time to breathe and to come up with own proposals rather than trying to force in one direction.

AndyGrant · 2010-02-07 11:17:15

DeliciousDemar wrote:
Andy,
please don't put words in my mouth. Voicing your opinion is fine - I never told anyone to be quiet. Well, except Hugo. And, you know, Hugo really does need to be quiet.

My apologies if i did, i didn't intend to put words in your mouth but rather state that i do care.

DeliciousDemar wrote:
But calling for a "vote" as if it means something is not fine. You have no authority or right to call for a vote on this - and you are using the mechanisms of the forum to lend more weight to your opinion than it actually has. . Of course you need to look out for the interests of your shareholders. But I mean ffs, you hold about 1% of shares. Saying you are the "8th largest" shareholder is just another tactic to make your holdings seem more important than they are.

Next time, simply make a post, stating your opinion - don't try to bully Giam into doing what YOU think is best. It's just rude. A good CEO will listen, and I think Giam is a good CEO.

It's not fine at all, i'm greatly dissapointed that my 2 posts about this issue earlier were ignored (Scroll through the other CR discussions). Finally when i chatted with Giam he didn't seem to respect my concern at all. Highly dissapointing, he is not listening.

I'm in no way trying to pressure him, nor bully him. I'm simply trying to establish a market opinion. If i am alone, or the minority, then i am wrong and Giam is right, but based on price discovery (look at the chart) it appears i may be right.

DeliciousDemar wrote:
You and a couple others around here try to swing your weight around a lot with tons of posts and strong opinions. Volume and quantity doesn't mean anything to me. Respect and honor do.

dd

I like to share my views, sometimes simply think out loud, to collect others opinion, to also know if i'm wrong, and educate myself. Yes i had occasionally sounded like a fool trying to tell people what to do, and such unnecessary nonsense, but i try to avoid that, and listen more.

Feedback like yours, means a lot to me.
(i really do appreciate it a lot, i don't always agree, but it's always insightfull and inspiring)

giampaolohuldschinsky · 2010-02-07 11:28:50

I am really tired that everybody can open a poll, take decision insult me and my honesty and i cant do anything about this!!
Insounciant are you alive or what!! Close this stupid polls pls
If to place or not an order is in my completely control, i suggested a minor shareholder rep and nobody was interested in applying.
Andy if u have osmething to tell me or discuss you know you can contact me in many ways it is not necessary to open a poll or a thread.
I will tell it now and not repeat anymore, i will not waste my time answering to millions of empty accusation, i prefer to use my time in improving CR!

AndyGrant · 2010-02-07 11:34:22

giampaolohuldschinsky wrote:
I am really tired that everybody can open a poll, take decision insult me and my honesty and i cant do anything about this!!
Insounciant are you alive or what!! Close this stupid polls pls
If to place or not an order is in my completely control, i suggested a minor shareholder rep and nobody was interested in applying.
Andy if u have osmething to tell me or discuss you know you can contact me in many ways it is not necessary to open a poll or a thread.
I will tell it now and not repeat anymore, i will not waste my time answering to millions of empty accusation, i prefer to use my time in improving CR!

We had a chat earlier today, we were unable to reach a conclusion therefore i establish this shareholder vote, you basically completely ignored me.

If you don't respect my shareholder rights, then why should i ever respect yours ?

Last edited by AndyGrant (2010-02-07 11:34:52)

DeliciousDemar · 2010-02-07 11:40:37

So, if a CEO doesn't agree with you, then he/she is completely ignoring you? You talked to Giam and didn't get the response you wanted, so you ran to the forum to make a poll... grrrr.

dd

AndyGrant · 2010-02-07 11:41:34

Del, you have been away for a while, but please do download the trade history in CR to familiarize yourself with the underlying facts.

To answer your question, he didn't consider my concern as valid (at least thast the impression i got), i as a shareholder REQUIRE to be at least heard.

Last edited by AndyGrant (2010-02-07 11:53:27)

giampaolohuldschinsky · 2010-02-07 11:50:30

Andy you are learning from your friend hugo or what?
Do you want i pubblish our chat log ?

AndyGrant · 2010-02-07 11:54:09

giampaolohuldschinsky wrote:
Andy you are learning from your friend hugo or what?
Do you want i pubblish our chat log ?

Please post it at your earliest opportunity. And to answer your other question, no i (try to) learn from my own mistakes.

Edited to change: Post it if you like to: Please post it at your earliest opportunity.

Last edited by AndyGrant (2010-02-07 11:58:01)

DeliciousDemar · 2010-02-07 12:24:51

AndyGrant wrote:
Del, you have been away for a while, but please do download the trade history in CR to familiarize yourself with the underlying facts.

To answer your question, he didn't consider my concern as valid (at least thast the impression i got), i as a shareholder REQUIRE to be at least heard.

First, I am not arguing the facts of the issue - because as I have stated, I think the sell order is Hugo's decision. And it sounds like you require to be agreed with, not heard.

But here's the thing- CR has been listed for what, two months? I can tell you from past experience that running skyboxes takes a TON of time - inworld work time . And there are hundreds and hundreds of posts on the forums, many of which are calling Giam a liar and a fraudster. There are dozens of suggestions for what he ought to be doing, including lots of conflicting advice. It is my impression that Giam has been unfairly attacked, with accusations of wrongdoing and incompetence.

I am not saying that you made the accusations, but at a certain point, ANYONE would stop listening to third-party advice and just want some peace and quiet to see if he/she can make the business work! I can certainly understand why Giam would bristle at yet more advice.

just keeping it real...

dd

AndyGrant · 2010-02-07 12:54:01

DeliciousDemar wrote:
It is my impression that Giam has been unfairly attacked, with accusations of wrongdoing and incompetence.

I couldn't agree more. My timing may not seem fair, to shorten my message really and my intention: Forget the stock market, cancel the order for now let it live its own life, focus on the business, make it the best skybox business there is and then when shareholders show their appreciation by bidding higher some time from now, then offer them some more shares (if you really must sell more of your stake in your own profitable business).

Thats the thing, the timing, and the priority.

Last edited by AndyGrant (2010-02-07 12:55:05)

HugoLeckrone · 2010-02-07 14:56:12

Andy have the right to ask the market, here or in the general forum, via poll or via comments to exercise politica pressure to make Giampaolo to quit that order. Giampaolo, you are no body to ask to remove freedom to speech..musolini died time ago.

Said this, there is no poll, there is not way to obligate Giampaolo to quit that order. This poll can be political pressure but never can obligate him, as far as he is absolutly free to put that order. What I think the company, the shareholders can vote is to forbid the CEO to declare what levels are speculation and wich ones not.

But, also is legitime to use all the political pressure to make Giampa change idea. Nobody said be CEO is a plataeu of happiness and is very understable sharhodlres dont like that order, cause made a lot of danger.

HugoLeckrone · 2010-02-07 15:03:31

Poor Andy, you try to defend your rights legitimally and they insult calling HUGO.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA

giampaolohuldschinsky · 2010-02-07 16:23:22

Andy you can't decide for me!!
If you do not like how i manage, you are free to sell CR shares and invest in a company that follow your "suggestions"

AndyGrant · 2010-02-07 16:29:36

Thank you, for your answer.

You are the first CEO who sells more shares of his own company shortly after IPO (i now found out those shares were not even companys shares they were your own), at a ridiculous low price. You should feel ashamed of yourself, destroying investors value.

You have no idea what you're doing. Sadly i can't just wipe out CR out of my index (yes i have a leveraged position in CR wether i like it or not), so i'll have to arrange a special meeting with my creditors to find out a best solution, because i'm not going to have the risk for my own investors to attach a company which is so terribly managed as key component.

I wish you best of luck, and hope you will one day understand what an investor is.

InsouciantYue · 2010-02-07 16:33:53

Closing poll. Reading and thinking and trying to pull the points out of the last 3-4 dozen? posts in the few hours I was not here!

I will state that I am a bit uneasy about closing this poll. I think Andy should have his say and even be able to ask others in a 'straw poll' whether they are of like mind or not. But I don't like this poll being here and I'm closing it largely because I was asked to by the CEO. I think another poll (DD's "should CEOs only be able to start polls in their own subforum" would give me (and everyone) a better "policy" towards this. The last few hours have seen quite a lot of heated arguments stepping over into flaming. Not everything everywhere, but let's step back a moment.

Yes, completely remove it for now (may reissue later)

Yes, replace it with a smaller order <5,000 shares

No, it should stay